Boss Coin Discussion

Hamster

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No damage check will become higher than current numbers. Average % tell me what people can reach on average, seems absolutely fair to set it around that for the jobs that don't meet current check. If it's close I can lower it slightly as well.
Are you using the mean or the median, and is there a specific reason for whichever you've decided? Just curious, not sure if it skews a specific way.
 

SnoopyTheSheep

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But wouldn't the current average % be skewed towards funded players?
I imagine a good chunk of buccaneers, shadowers and so on aren't bothering to go to boss runs at the moment in the first place, so they aren't being logged. This would skew average %s for the weaker classes upwards.

To quote myself:

However, it isn’t simple because we are also aware that the data we are currently receiving is biased towards stronger players. To explain it more fully: players who feel they cannot hit damage requirement will generally not be participating in boss runs at the moment. This means that, for example, the damage numbers buccaneers are currently doing will be weighted towards only the strongest buccaneers in the server who feel bossing is worth their time and effort. Thus, if we were to decide a % purely based on the data we are getting right now, the new % requirement for buccaneers would be too high. Please be patient while we pull more statistics.
 

lanceress

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If the data harvey logged tracks the date of when it was logged then its probably better to look at the earlier boss runs than the later ones I think. There is a possibility that players started to play and change their playstyle due to the check (Arans/NLs stop attacking at certain phases of a boss fight, leaving HT arms for remaining dps characters that havent reached check yet).
 

Adriancjf

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The chart seems abit off. I’ve seen bishop getting dmg check easily at czak or ht. That being said, they are probably at 1.3k tma with gene30. Not sure how we can actually lower the dmg check based on the chart. I think the feedback from the community is more accurate.

For examples in horntail -
Bucc = 3.5% (I’ve seen decent Bucc appled just to hit the %)
Archers = 4% (ht is like a jq for them)
Bishop = 3-3.5 (they gotta ensure the sed is alive so this % should be comfortable for them to hit check yet heal the sed)

I don’t know what else but I’m sure people here have a number in their mind especially those that play the jobs above ^
 

lokemer

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Bringing the damage check below the average for certain classes (bucc) seems like the right call to me - I've talked to people who've simply decided to stop coming on boss runs since they can't hit damage check. Those who are still going on HT, czak, etc are probably on the stronger side as opposed to players who simply gave up on bossing.

That being said, the recent transparency is pretty pog
 

BishPlease

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Adjusting based on the averages will definitely be an improvement over today. Though, if that's the direction we're taking, hopefully (time-permitting) we can improve on and tweak the approach to be more "accurate" afterward.

(I'm assuming the data you pulled is as-is, but correct me if I'm wrong)
  1. Survivorship bias (risk of overstating %s): only those who run and complete the run are being considered, which will tend to skew towards more funded players. Hard to objectively measure this as the data doesn't exist for those who haven't run. You could define some margin for error to lower the thresholds, but it would still be subjective and arbitrary. On the other hand, it's arguable that it is acceptable to reflect this here and not necessarily pander to the average "casual" player.
  2. Inability to consider the aspect of damage over time (risk of overstating %s): as many have noted, these data include the behaviour of parties waiting (potentially what feels like an excessively long time) for teammates to hit the damage check. Ideally if DPM data exists for every minute of the run, that could allow for some cool adjustments, but I suspect that there's no good way of getting that data.
  3. HS muling (risk of understating %s): the bishop figures definitely look low, which I suspect is in part due to HS muling and/or people just not even trying to hit the check because they think it's out of reach. I'm all for being selfishly wanting it easier for myself to hit the threshold, but going too far down here does present some of the biggest risk of muling for coins if people are bringing in their bishops already anyway.
At the end of the day, the ability to make a measured and informed decision is limited by the availability and quality of the data. If you're willing and able to share the raw data, I'd be interested to see what a bit of scrubbing and analysis could show. Though at this point, I'm probably way over-complicating this exercise anyway.

Perhaps one relatively quick way to help mitigate some of #1 and #3 could be to simply discard/censor some of the extreme values (let's say, the top and bottom 5% of data).
 

Wish

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Personally, as a 17x bucc who does regular HTs, I think that the 3.9% for HT has to be further looked at with a critical eye, considering that we're one of the classes that have to apple/gelt every single run and that probably inflated that number.

I can most likely hit 3.5% without appling in a 50min~1hr ht run, but i'm not sure if a lvl 155, less funded bucc would be able to do so.

Nevertheless, thank you for the effort Harvey! 😄
 

Lenrage

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But wouldn't the current average % be skewed towards funded players?
I imagine a good chunk of buccaneers, shadowers and so on aren't bothering to go to boss runs at the moment in the first place, so they aren't being logged. This would skew average %s for the weaker classes upwards.

To quote myself:
I agree, buccs lv 135-150 are so weak since they don't have maxed their dps skills yet
Post automatically merged:

Personally, as a 17x bucc who does regular HTs, I think that the 3.9% for HT has to be further looked at with a critical eye, considering that we're one of the classes that have to apple/gelt every single run and that probably inflated that number.

I can most likely hit 3.5% without appling in a 50min~1hr ht run, but i'm not sure if a lvl 155, less funded bucc would be able to do so.

Nevertheless, thank you for the effort Harvey! 😄
X2
 
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sledly

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No damage check will become higher than current numbers. Average % tell me what people can reach on average, seems absolutely fair to set it around that for the jobs that don't meet current check. If it's close I can lower it slightly as well.
not really active anymore but i do hope good things come out of the server still as it was one of the most enjoyable experiences ive had on a game.

given that I have noticed that the values for horntail is still wrong.

You currently have it set up to have 140m the damage break point which is the total hp of horntail including preheads. However prehead damage is not calculated into their totals.

Horntail after preheads total hp is 2,090m hp. 5% of that is 104.5m.

so basically anyone who got cucked out of boss coins who hit the real damage check which on the system would show 3..732% and above but was below the incorrect 5% got literally robbed, which is funny cause the average data shows that they would be hitting damage check on average if the damage check on horntail wasnt incorrect int he first place.

I posted this in bugs but due to my frustration and lashing out it got locked which is understandable but I figure you mght wanna fix this anyways.

or you wont care doesnt matter

I have attached multiple files to show proof as currently you can only get around 80% of horntail damage % in total checks depending on healing so the damage check on horntail has always artifically been higher at 6.6985%

 

Harvey

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I guess the pre-heads aren't defined as 'bosses' -_-
 

Daro

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I guess the pre-heads aren't defined as 'bosses' -_-
Will it be possible to define them as bosses? or simply take them off the total count?

On the other hand, I know all of this takes time and it can get super complicated. But it would mean so much for many of us if you set an estimated date when these changes will occur (including the HT % bug that is sooooooo annoying). I would even say that it may be more beneficial for all "survivors" if GMs worked on reviewing/replying/implementing suggestions before working on new events that a lot of people end up ignoring anyway.
 

Harvey

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Will it be possible to define them as bosses? or simply take them off the total count?

On the other hand, I know all of this takes time and it can get super complicated. But it would mean so much for many of us if you set an estimated date when these changes will occur (including the HT % bug that is sooooooo annoying). I would even say that it may be more beneficial for all "survivors" if GMs worked on reviewing/replying/implementing suggestions before working on new events that a lot of people end up ignoring anyway.
Seems they are already defined as bosses. I would have to do some more digging to fix it.
 

BishPlease

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Seems they are already defined as bosses. I would have to do some more digging to fix it.
I wonder if preheads being on different maps is messing with the check (in which case, perhaps changing the preheads to not be defined as bosses might help, if that's even possible?)
 

Harvey

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I've been extremely busy lately. Which is why the damage check isn't updated yet. Now I'm able to work on it again. Will post an update soon with new damage thresholds per job.
 

Harvey

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Hehe. We still can't fully enjoy bossing with friends. The 135 of us that are left...
Boss Coins the only thing to enjoy about a boss? I guess no one did bosses before this system, because it was never worth it or fun...

It's summer and I'm currently on vacation.. with shit wi-fi. Trying my best though, just be a little more patient.
 

Daro

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Boss Coins the only thing to enjoy about a boss?
Not at all, but it sure is a huge incentive. Due to this system, it sometimes feels like the run is not worth if you don't meet the check. And if someone from a specific job joins a run, it could affect the whole party by making them stop attacking and start waiting.

On the other hand, it really is very nice to know that you still have this update on your mind. I think we all appreciate the time and work you put into the server. I guess it's easy for some players (like me) to just sit and demand changes after getting frustrated in-game, sorry.
 

Harvey

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I've already adjusted Zakum and Chaos Zakum. However I guess I will need a restart for the others tomorrow, because I can only do whole numbers now. This isn't ideal for some bosses.
 

BishPlease

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I've already adjusted Zakum and Chaos Zakum. However I guess I will need a restart for the others tomorrow, because I can only do whole numbers now. This isn't ideal for some bosses.
Could you please update the changed percentages in your "Server changes (v92)" or "Boss Coin Shop" threads as you could along? That would make it easier to find information, as I think you've only mentioned in Discord so far, which has long been buried in memes and salt.
 

Harvey

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Could you please update the changed percentages in your "Server changes (v92)" or "Boss Coin Shop" threads as you could along? That would make it easier to find information, as I think you've only mentioned in Discord so far, which has long been buried in memes and salt.
I will when it's done!
 

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