Reconsider Nerfing DRPQ Weapons (like the Machlear)

jimyason

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Alright, I know this a controversial topic at hand, so my hope is to approach this as objectively as a I can. But please reconsider nerfing the DRPQ weapons. Admittedly this post will be focused on the Machlear. Here are my reasons why:

1) feasibility at obtaining it
The Warrior box has about a 1% chance to give you the Machlear (Source: Hidden Street). Each run takes approximately 15-20 minutes to run if you run with SE and arans/Nls (this also varies depending on how strong each attacker is and how much hp they possess). To put that in perspective, you have a 1% chance of earning the Immortal Pharoah Belt from one Pyramid PQ run (0.02% chance per box, you get 50 boxes per run. Source: Hidden Street). I believe each Pyramid PQ run takes about 15 minutes to run. While it’s true that you can get lucky and get a Machlear within a few boxes, statistically speaking, your chances of getting the Machlear are rather low and it’ll take a considerable amount of hours to farm for one polearm alone. As a personal anecdote, I’ve run about 100-105 runs this past week alone.

2) the machlear is not op, strong yes, but not op
Someone made this point in the thread “What’s Next.” But to reiterate, the Machlear’s spirit buff isn’t useful in most maps. No bosses except Papalutus are Spirit type. Furthermore, the 5% crit rate and 20% crit damage is only most effective in the scenario you have a PT with SE and you have 100 combo. This condition isn’t difficult to attain, but this isn’t a game-breaking buff. This is personal anecdote as well, but some arans I’ve spoken with said that the Machlear is only 10-15% better than a 116-120 attack Red Surfboard. While it’s an increase, it’s not anything game-breaking like the PSB. Nor is the Machlear remotely as good as a perfect Arcglaive.

Based on my understanding, most people are arguing that the Crypto is game-breaking because you receive a 40% boost due to bosses like Zak and Pink Bean or mobs in ToT being devil type and NL’s having near 100% crit rate when fully buffed. And on one end, I agree that a drpq weapon should NOT be stronger than a perfect lampion or any perfectly scrolled weapon. However, the basis of the drpq nerf argument is that the drpq weapons are dramatically stronger than reverse weapons. If that’s the case, the Machlear, based on my understanding, doesn’t seem to be stronger than the Arcglaive which is our endgame weapon. It’s only in the scenario that you chaos scroll it and make it 115-120 attack that it might be just as strong if not stronger. On that note, tell me how many 10-20 atk pacs you see and tell me how feasible it is to achieve this with the Machlear. That being said, if you do the math and show me that the Machlear is, on chance, stronger than the Arcglaive, I’ll concede this argument.

3) limited Aran weapons
For the record, I am aware that arans are top tier in DPS. However, it’s extremely difficult to craft the Arcglaive. Sure, it’s true that a perfect reverse weapon on average costs more, but the materials to craft reverse weapons are at least feasible to get unlike the Taos. Again, not saying it’s cheap, but you can buy the material at reasonable prices. Taos got a/wed at 700m pre-buff. Additionally, you can at least craft an average reverse weapon and 60% it till you craft your godly reverse. Or you can even sell your mediocre reverse weapon. Fortunately, I’m grateful that the Tao rates are being buffed, but the Machlear is one of the few weapon upgrades we have till we can craft the Arcglaive.


Some closing remarks. Again, I understand the issue with DRPQ weapons. But I think it’s a tad unfair to totally nerf the weapons and make them useless. A lot of us spent considerable amount of time trying to farm these weapons. Additionally you can only scroll these weapons with a Chaos Scroll. At the very least, if you plan on nerfing, please nerf the weapons in a way they’re not rendered useless. I appreciate you taking time to read this post and I appreciate the way you are handling issues in this server. Thank you again, and best wishes!
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Edit: that being said, I do know the Tao drop rate just got buffed. That should make getting the Arcglaive more feasible now than before. However, I hope that doesn’t invalidate the grind to get the Machlear. Thanks for the read guys :)
 
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Uchi

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If the skills are removed from drpq weapons then the weapons should be changed to being scrollable so that a Machlear isn't totally worthless, some people spent tons of time and/or money on these weapons
 

mike

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If the skills are removed from drpq weapons then the weapons should be changed to being scrollable so that a Machlear isn't totally worthless, some people spent tons of time and/or money on these weapons
Not sure how I feel about this. While every other class has to struggle through making reverse weapons, Arans being able to scroll a Machlear seems a bit unfair even as far as availability goes, it’s still much easier than every other class.

To the point that Tao’s used to be 700m (and are now probably a lot less), 1.4b for your end game weapon is a dream. Every class that requires reverse has to struggle so much more to get something comparable. I don’t envy Arans but I do think that the rarity of Arcglaives is perfectly fair seeing how much stronger they make an already OP class.
 

Uchi

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Not sure how I feel about this. While every other class has to struggle through making reverse weapons, Arans being able to scroll a Machlear seems a bit unfair even as far as availability goes, it’s still much easier than every other class.

To the point that Tao’s used to be 700m (and are now probably a lot less), 1.4b for your end game weapon is a dream. Every class that requires reverse has to struggle so much more to get something comparable. I don’t envy Arans but I do think that the rarity of Arcglaives is perfectly fair seeing how much stronger they make an already OP class.
Isn’t is cheaper to craft an arcglaive than it is to buy a machlear? I’ve seen machlears sell for 1.4b and taos at ~500. The drop rate for taos is also buffed 4x so that price would probably go down even further.
 

phanta

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Wasnt the original intent of nerfing the weapons due to crypto? Perhaps u'd want to shift your focus to there since everything else that was the issue originally
 

jimyason

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If the skills are removed from drpq weapons then the weapons should be changed to being scrollable so that a Machlear isn't totally worthless, some people spent tons of time and/or money on these weapons
As much as I’d like that, that does seem OP. Maybe release the tablets and make them 50% pass rate and 50% blow up if fail? Each tablet +2 if passed.
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Wasnt the original intent of nerfing the weapons due to crypto? Perhaps u'd want to shift your focus to there since everything else that was the issue originally
Well I think the issue was brought up due to the crypto being broken. I have my own thoughts on the crypto. Like maybe lower devil percent to 10% or whatever. But I’m guessing it’s easier to entirely remove special stats rather than tweak them.

Machlear is involved in the discussion because people are frustrated with Aran dps, which is reasonable. But again I don’t think machlear is better than a perfect arcglaive and doesnt warrant a nerf.
 
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Harvey

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These (epic) weapons were released when potentials were also released. To me it only makes sense to remove the stats when we don't have potentials (which we'll never release/add).
 

jimyason

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These (epic) weapons were released when potentials were also released. To me it only makes sense to remove the stats when we don't have potentials (which we'll never release/add).
I see, I actually didn’t know that. Maybe I should just get some chaos scrolls ready for when they get nerfed haha. Thanks for the reply Harvey!
 

Trose

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can someone explain me why those durability weapons are considered to be that good?
 

Slumber

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can someone explain me why those durability weapons are considered to be that good?
They were released, as said, along side potentials. They essentially act as potentials. So it is either add potentials (no) or remove the potential-like stats for balance.
 

Trose

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They were released, as said, along side potentials. They essentially act as potentials. So it is either add potentials (no) or remove the potential-like stats for balance.
yeah i noticed the extra stats they give , but they have a durability limit..i mean.. arent they gone after a while anyway?
 

jitenp

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Durability doesn't mean the item is destroyed, you just have to repair durability from the NPC in leafre. Same thing as rex earrings
 

Resutaa

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I think if we are to remove potentials on all of these weapons, a fair compromise would be to allow normal scrolling on them so they aren't completely worthless. Tons of people have spent countless hours on DRPQ when they could have been farming for alternative weapons.

If a change like this was being considered, it should have been communicated MUCH earlier instead of letting the playerbase waste their time. I understand that these weapons were being discussed in the "What's next?" discussion thread, but there should have been a global announcement to let players know changes might be coming down the pipe. I'd say a very small percentage of players actually look at the forums and an even smaller percentage read that specific post.
 

Harvey

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I think if we are to remove potentials on all of these weapons, a fair compromise would be to allow normal scrolling on them so they aren't completely worthless. Tons of people have spent countless hours on DRPQ when they could have been farming for alternative weapons.

If a change like this was being considered, it should have been communicated MUCH earlier instead of letting the playerbase waste their time. I understand that these weapons were being discussed in the "What's next?" discussion thread, but there should have been a global announcement to let players know changes might be coming down the pipe. I'd say a very small percentage of players actually look at the forums and an even smaller percentage read that specific post.
There was nothing to communicate, because I didn't know what to do yet.

I will add the tablets so they can be used in these weapons. I will add these before removing them and perhaps so many boom that I won't do it.
Also as I said in discord, I won't do this in the near future, so pretty sure it's not a waste of time.
 

Slumber

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There was nothing to communicate, because I didn't know what to do yet.

I will add the tablets so they can be used in these weapons. I will add these before removing them and perhaps so many boom that I won't do it.
Also as I said in discord, I won't do this in the near future, so pretty sure it's not a waste of time.
For those wondering, it was kind of alluded to that these weapons will retain their bonuses until a fusion replacement system is developed (or that's how I interpreted the post). So, for the time being and for the next few months it isn't a waste of time as you get to use the weapon to the maximum benefit. Also these weapons are still incredible secondary stat alternatives for "mid-game" purposes.
 

phanta

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I will add the tablets so they can be used in these weapons. I will add these before removing them and perhaps so many boom that I won't do it.
Also as I said in discord, I won't do this in the near future, so pretty sure it's not a waste of time.
Is anyone still doing the PQ, considering the current weapons which have been chaos'ed and would be rendered pointless to use tablets upon?

Not to mention how are the tablets going to be obtained. I mean look at rex earrings... im sure plenty of people would love to throw it on them too.
 

Uchi

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Will there be any changes made to DRPQ? Since it's going to be dead content after the nerf
 

Slumber

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Will there be any changes made to DRPQ? Since it's going to be dead content after the nerf
I like the possible idea of the weapons becoming more common after the nerf (it's probably going to be a dead PQ now).

This is for a future idea and doesn't need to take over this thread: but revamping the PQ, making the weapons far more common/getting rid of trash, and limiting it twice a day and making it rewarding (doesn't have to be boss points) all seem potentially good options (no one doing this PQ for EXP). This would be a bridge to think about post-nerf/fusion-enhancement system revamp.
 

Harvey

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Will there be any changes made to DRPQ? Since it's going to be dead content after the nerf
I'm planning on boosting exp for all pq's while in the level range of the pq. That way it will be a really good, maybe slightly better, alternative for grinding. Grinding is boring.. right :x
 

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